Ok, we all understand. If I'm in a real fight, I'm not going to try to knock the person down with a fancy 360 inside crescent kick.
But, in my decade or so of Taekwondo training, I learned many, many other techniques (joint-locks, arm-breaks, punches, elbows, etc) which would be effective in that situation.
I can only assume people are looking at sport taekwondo and then stereotyping an entire martial art discipline by what they see there. I'm sorry, but watching fights on TV does NOT make you an expert in judging whether one is always completely effective against another.
I understand that there are a huge number of TKD schools across the nation, and sadly, many of them are indeed belt factories, but don't write off an ancient, efficient, and deadly martial art just because of that.
PS: I'm not looking for polemics, "because it sucks" is not an answer, it's a commentary on the intelligence of the answerer.|||There are several aspects to my answer:
#1. People knock TKD because they simply do not know enough about the art. It's human nature to make fun or cut down something they don't understand, whether it's politics, fashion, religion, or sports. Think of male ballet dancers and how much ribbing they get about the tights and twirling around. But the regimen and training a male dancer goes through? You don't want to mess with the strength in those legs or in those arms, the ones that continually lift female dancers with ease.
The UFC has not done TKD (or any traditional art) any favors. People see these guys pound each other and then wonder about the guy in the dobok bouncing around and throwing kicks.
So why do people knock TKD? Ignorance.
#2. I was a 1st degree black belt when I was actually called to use my skills to defend myself against an out-of-control 6'3" male (I'm a 5'6" female). Anyone who knows TKD knows that the blocks, kicks, and strikes can be devastating... BUT also knows that we believe that TKD is the last possible defense and that we strike to disable, not to maim. When my attacker went to trial, his charlatan of an attorney painted this ridiculous picture of me as a female Jackie Chan, breaking walls with my pinkie (seriously -- it's in the court transcripts) and being a dangerous thug because I had a number of sparring trophies under my belt, so to speak. Were there any martial artists on the jury? No. If there had been, they would have understood the tenets of control and self discipline and known that I used my TKD as a last resort. My attacker was found not guilty. Me? I bear the physical scars of his attack to this day (albeit under make up).
If people truly understood TKD, they would have understood its power and its discipline. Again, ignorance, but from a different angle.
#3. Too many TKD schools are around that exist almsot solely to line the owners' pockets. Charge for the uniform, charge a registration fee, charge for each piece of equipment, charge a monthly processing fee, charge exorbitantly for each test, charge for "mandatory" seminars, charge for testing review classes, etc. Yet the quality of student they turn out? Couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. And this is what people see. Case in point: one of the country's largest TKD schools is located in my town. Students are tested every 3 months, regardless of whether they are ready or not. The school's focus? Self esteem. Not skills, not self defense, not sparring. Self esteem. Well, one little 8 year old Black Belt's self esteem got knocked to the ground when he was standing outside the dojang in his black belt uniform, waiting to be picked up, and a trio of 7 year olds took him on and sent him running back to his instructor crying, with a bloody nose.
We've had students from this school and from other TKD schools come to us, some at intermediate ranks, some one or two ranks away from Black Belt. When we evaluate them for placement, every single one has been a white belt. No skills, no technique, no retention. We have also lost students (juniors) because they'd been with us for a year and hadn't advanced in rank yet. Well, we don't hand out rank unless it has been earned. If it takes five months, great! If it takes longer, well, then it takes longer. But we believe in teaching our art correctly and responsibly.
So again, ignorance, perpetuated by "belt factories" that care more about money than about sharing the art, so that TKD "black belts" that fight like wet noodles and have no discipline are out there, giving TKD a bad name|||Like everyone else said, you are on to something. "Shopping Mall Belt Factories". I did TKD for a little while. I learned more practical fighting in a week of Muay Thai than a year of TKD. And you can't write off what you see on TV. There is a reason why TKD black belts get their butts handed to them at MMA tournaments. When I fought, it was hard finding MMA tournaments because TKD owns the US martial arts market and a lot of times they refuse to fight in MMA tournaments. So you see a lot of TKD tournaments instead. With all of these TKD schools pumping out black belts like NFL is pumping out criminals, sole blame for this stereotype lies directly on the TKD schools themselves. Look at UFC, you may not like it but it's practically street fighting (especially before Congress made them get some rules). The vast majority of those fighters know Thai boxing, wrestling, or brazilian ju jitsu. I'm not trying to be one of these "TKD sucks" bandwagon guys, but do the math. I'm not saying you can't fight, but TKD is the laughing stock of the martial arts world. Take it from someone who has been on both sides of the coin.|||I think you answered your own question there. People only know a little bit about it, and the little bit that gets advertised is not flattering. I honestly don't know that much about it, but it seems like any other martial art - there's a broad range of skills, some showy and pretty much useless and some are highly effective. In public type fights, showiness is almost as important as winning (that's true of all styles though) because you're trying to impress the public.
Still, that showiness combined with the number of money-hungry teachers and the fact that martial artists can sometimes be a bit derogatory to other disciplines and then pass that attitude along to their students and friends, and it's just got a bad rep. It it helps, I reccommend people avoid TKD because I don't know of any reputable teachers in the area, not because I don't respect the art.|||I just read the headline, what else do I need to read.
Tkd, in my view, and in alot of peoples view just is plain and simply not effective and is only good for sport and flashy b.s. By the way I wouldn't go out of my way to down the art. I shouldn't belittle any art I know that. I do voice my view, and as I have said forever, man I'm old, TKD is and always will be the last art on Earth, or any other planet on my list of things to learn. In fact I am fond of saying I'd rather have a sharp stick in the eye before training in TKD. I know this is not right of me, I will say that. I shouldn't down any art. In that respect I am wrong. But never less I do believe what I say is true, so how bad can it truly be. Disagree or Agree for me I am right, for you I may be wrong. I am sure you do not agree with me on how effective my styles are. In so you have every right to disagree as strongly as you wanted. All I can say is that I have fought, I mean a real fight, TKD students and seen many fight. From xp, TKD is truely not even on my list of arts I'd do, for any reason. I personally see no truth in Tkd, but don't feel bad I don't see much truth in any "traditional" martial art.|||I think you answered your own question, part of it anyway. TKD is a belt factory in the US. People dont respect that at all. Frankly i dont believe in belts at all. They mean nothing in a fight. I dont like TKD beacuse to me its more of a dance then a martial arts what i mean by dance is its mostly all flying kicks and unreal strikes. You put the higest black belt person and ranked #1 TKD expert in a fight against a guy with 1 year of kick boxing, BJJ and Wrestling and I will bet 99 out of 100 times the guy with 1 year of MMA will beat the TKD expert. Beacause of this, this is the main reason I think people do not like TKD.|||Some people think that all TKD is sport TKD. Some feel the need to tear others down in order to build themselves up.
In other words, these people are either ignorant or pathetic.|||people do it cause they know no better. i make fun of it cause i have a bunch of friends who have taken it and i still can kick there @$$. they learn no displin or fighting skills. thats not all of them but most. it seems to be the lightest in the martial arts for bringing out great people. just a bunch of cocky push overs. thats why i do it.|||Because TKD just doesn't have street cred. It's got cred among martial artists and especially in korea but to get street cred it needs to be seen clearly on television in pro MMA fights over and over again. The images of people winning with TKD style kicking combinations would have to drown out the images of TKD black belts getting their backsides handed to them.|||I think you got it right, there are too many belt factories and sport tae kwon do schools. Personally I think the art itself is good, its those who teach and practice it, that are its true detractors.|||Personally, I base my opinion of TKD on the fighters I've fought and the classes I've watched. I have had friends who dragged me to TKD classes to see if I would be interested. I was not impressed by the high flying, acrobatic kicks, the spinning punches and kicks, or the axe kicks, which are extremely dangerous to do on most mats since, if you slip, you will tear your PCL, MCL, or ACL, as I've seen MANY fighters do in american kickboxing and kontact karate bouts.
Also, as I referenced above, I've fought TKD fighters. Yes, I said fighters. They had American Kicboxing rules wins under their belt and stepped up to the big leagues, ie. Oriental and Thai rules bouts. I promtply sent them back down to the minors where elbows, knees, and thigh kicks aren't allowed. I have very little respect for an art that teaches you to stand sideways because, in TKD rules, you cannot kick or punch to the back at all. No kidney strikes, no ribcage hits to the back,. Now, while Thai and all forms of MMA or Boxing fights do not allow spinal attacks, they all allow a good, solid roundhouse to the kidney. And most TKD fighters take three or four of these devastating kicks to get the message that they need to adjust their stance. And when you adjust your stance for the first time, most of your techniques feel awkward. And when your techniques feel awkward, they don't work...and you see where I'm going. I knocked out my first TKD fighter when he tried a crescent, then turned for the spinning backfist as he planted the leg. I stepped in and blocked his forearm with mine, neutralizing it, then clinched his head, gave him an elbow to the jaw, then two skip knees to the ribs, then finished with another elbow for good measure. I'm not sure that he ever figured out what day it was or who was president, but I got the KO. The second KO I got on a TKD guy was from an axe kick attempt. When he missed (by about 10 or 12 inches, at that), I stepped in and gave him an inside thigh kick, then an outside thigh kick with the front leg. He backpedaled, his right leg already crumbling and I followed him, delivering straight punches to the face. He fell down and didn't get back up.
So, from two stupid moves which the TKD fighters should have NEVER attempted against a Thai trained fighter, I got two KOs. But, I must give them both props. They lasted into the second rounds, both of them. The Kajukenbo fighter I went up against didn't last longer than 1 minute before I knocked him out with a roundhouse to the skull. So I have less respect for that mostly worthless artform. Especially since he had a 6-1 record at the time and I had a 2-1. Especially since his teacher and cornerman was the State Kickboxing (that's American, not Thai) champion the 2 years before that. Especially since he had talked crap about my "ability" before the match. Especially since kajukenbo was purported to have been developed by hawaiians who "took only the best karate techniques" and fought in the streets of hawaii to hone their skills.
In the end, I think so many of us down TKD, most forms of Karate, Judo, and other "traditional" arts, because they are simply too full of useless manuevers. And as for your opening line, "If I'm in a real fight, I'm not going to try to knock the person down with a fancy 360 inside crescent kick", I ask: then why learn a technique that you KNOW you'll never need? Your brain, through the hours and hours of kata to develop that move, memorizes it and uses it by instinct, thus getting you into loads of trouble against competitors who have no such faulty training.|||I trained TKD for a little while when I was younger, and to be 100% honest not one thing I was taught was in any way practical. We learned techniques and mostly forms, mild weapon training and some light sparring, but in the end I did not feel at all like a better fighter than when I began.
It is sad to say, but TKD schools in America are either a belt factory or sport. I have seen a few sport TKD matches where both combatants stood there hopping foot to foot with their hands DOWN AT THEIR SIDES, then traded kicks with out once guarding their face! Not... necessarily what you want to do if you like to be conscious @_@
Then I saw an exhibition match between a Muay Thai school vs a TKD school. To say the Muay Thai school dominated would be an understatement. I am not a mean spirited person, I actually felt bad for the TKD guys because it looked very embarrassing. Talking to them after wards, they each pretty much had the same things to say: "I didn't know how to defend his attacks" "I couldn't hit him when he got close" "My kicks didn't look like they bothered him"
I won't fully discredit TKD, because UFC fighters David Loiseau and George St. Pierre both trained for a long time and have incorporated it into their MMA game (spinning back kicks most notably). Sport TKD though..... I'm sorry but it is a joke.|||TKD may be a good art, but not for me. my old bones can't take all the kicking involved|||cas of the reputation that even in korea after 2 years u can get a black belt... and that they are after your money... and u see people running around sayin crap like "i know every pressure point in the body" i almost busted out laughin at the guy who said it... even if he was just tryin 2 mack on a girl... but i know that they dont all suck like some people say :D|||hrmm...when I was "younger" I was more immature back then, I was told that TKD sucked and had no power behind their kicks...so I carried that with me, I met some practioners of TKD and they taught they were real hardcore and made it such a big deal about tKD training to be really hardcore...so for awhile I downed TKD for all its worth.
and a few years ago I learnt "some" of lifes lessons and learned and grew...so I took myself to a TKD school and learnt TKD has much more to it than its kicking techniques, TKD has a whole bunch of ethics that goes with it...and yes, the training was slightly hardcore, but manageable...
but the thing that got me was that those kicks still didnt have power as opposed to Muay Thai kicks, but they were nice looking...and as a street application, I would have prefered to use my hands and fists, and Im more comfortable with using my fists rather than my feet... but I will go back and learn some more TKD moves in the future.|||you're right, most people when criticizing TKD are criticizing sport TKD. I am guilty of this myself, but when talking about the way that they teach it in Korea is entirely different and is to be respected.
Many schools, not just TKD schools, see martial arts as money makers and teach it to look pretty and go just for sport. and when a student from that school brags about how they're a 3rd degree BB because, gets in a fight and loses(badly) it looks bad on that particular MA and school. Some people don't understand that what they learn isn't to be applied in the streets. And to me, the school is responsible for the student understanding that.
I have changed my opinion of TKD a lot and i realize that most of the times, you should look at the practitioner rather than the style of MA. I view TKD like i do any other art now. I look to see how that style is taught and what seems to be more important to the school...money or quality. That's why when i talk to a person now about TKD i make sure i criticize the school (usually ATA) rather than the particular style of martial art.|||Sadly people are stupid they talk about things they no nothing about. No one martial art is better than the other. Its about who's teaching, how they teach, motives for teaching, and an individuals ability to learn. I've tried lots of disciplines and I love TaeKwonDo the most. Not every martial art is for everyone.|||People see martial arts just as a way of fighting and they forget that they are much more
martial arts are for
self defence
fitness
disipline
and probably other reasons that im not seeing as i personally opnly really do it for fitness anyways :p|||I think a lot of them just jumped on the band wagon. They probably have read what someone else has said about TKD and based an opinion on that alone.
I have never studied TKD, but I know many people who are TKD fighters. Yes, FIGHTERS! Mr. Chadwyl Barnes, former PKA fighter and President of Showdown Productions and the World Karate Organization, based in Southern California is just one of them. He operates a school where TKD fighters train to compete in Kickboxing, Grappling, MMA and Sport Karate - All full contact fighting forms. Many of his students have won California State Title Belts and some have won World Title Belts.
You see, there is a big problem when TKD detractors wield the broad brush. It just shows that they are lazy and don't want to take the time to get the facts before opening their mouths.|||Well I always thought there should be ceritifcations for the teachers to get to prove credibility to the public.
If there is maybe you could explain it.|||I don't have a answer like the others. Talking about whats wrong with TKD.
But I am a TKD master instructor and my view on it is simply the public not under standing the art or the sport. The sport fighters are athletes just like all other fight sports. If people would try it from a good school they may like it and under stand it more. I have also been to some really bad Karate, Ju-jitsu dojos , and a few bad MMA and kickboxing gyms.
so its not just TKD that is like that.
I have cross trained in other styles and have taken the techs that work for me and have combined them with my TKD techs. any body who is a practitioner of MA knows that flashy doesn't work in a real fight, no matter what style.
every body wants to say MMA (kickboxing, BJJ, ext.) is so much better. the only way to do that is cross train. TKD is only one style not every style in one of course it has flaws and so does other arts.
And just to touch on the sport part a little more. yeah some of its flashy but it works. we hit each other with gear on and still knock each other out. oh yeah and the reason punching isn't exploited in sport is because any body can knock out some body with their hands not every one can do it with their feet. we react faster than most other styles with our counters and such because of the pace that we move at. if a sport TKD player was in a real fight they should do all right for the fact that we are used to getting hit hard and moving/countering faster than our opponent.
and if thats not good enough then why do most styles use TKD kicks as their leg techniques. and foot work.
Well thats my opinion on this topic and every art is left up to its students/practitioners to show how it work and looks.|||TKD's self defense in NOT practical and would not work in the street.|||I've come across the stereotype that TKD is not a "real" martial art several times over the years. Personally, I think it says more about the martial artist making the accusation than about the art itself. Any style has the potential to be practiced with sincerity and integrity, or just so you can say you have some pretty colored belts. Just because I meet some 16 year old kid who says, "I could beat you up! I study ninjitsu! I know the art of the ninja!" it doesn't take anything away from ninjitsu itself.
I say, judge the martial artist, not the art!|||The same reason some people Write Off Judo because of seeing Olympic Judo. It gives your art a bad name. Now no art is inherantly bad. If you have never learned how to fight and you take even Sport Tae kwon Do your gonna get better. But it all comes back to what the art is today and how much of it really works. Today Tae Kwon Do is a Sport and 75% of what is taught doesn't work on the street.
Even In Korea where it was invented people train in Hapkido for Self Defence and Tae Kwno Do for Sport now.(for the Most part)|||One reason is because taekwondo fighters suck at close range fighting|||cuz its gay
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